[VoIP] [Strowger] Re: [originally from Strowger] A NYC PayphonePuzzle

Tue Oct 10 13:59:40 CDT 2006

Actually you can redbox operators, you used to have to deposit a real coin
first which would ground the line, then redbox the rest of it, but near the
end of the redboxing era, I used to redbox operators all the time without
any coins, this was more than 7 years ago :)

On 10/10/06, Jayson Smith <ratguy at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Sorry I'm not on all six of these lists, just Voip and Centraloffice.
> Anyway, a few years ago I was reading some red boxing articles on maybe
> Phonelosers? where they talked about some coin line phones having
> mouthpieces which either weren't on until coin deposit, had filters to
> prevent those tones from going through, etc. in order to defeat red
> boxers.
> Of course if you're talking to an operator who's asking for money you have
> to be able to talk to her and deposit *real* coins, so the mouthpiece
> can't
> be disabled during this time.
> Jayson.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steph Kerman" <stfkerman at jps.net>
> To: <Strowger at yahoogroups.com>; "ATCA" <ATCA at LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG>;
> "ATCA-Yahoo Group" <atcaclub at yahoogroups.com>; "TCI"
> <singingwires at yahoogroups.com>; "Central Office"
> <centraloffice at yahoogroups.com>; "VoIP" <voip at ckts.info>
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [VoIP] [Strowger] Re: [originally from Strowger] A NYC
> PayphonePuzzle
>
>
> > Hi Bernard,
> >
> > In a digital office, the tone would have to be within the passband of
> > the anti-aliasing filter of the subscriber line codec.  I'd guess that
> > the transmitter has a wider passband than the filter, which cuts off
> > quite abruptly around 3KHz.  In Automated Coin Telephone Service, toll
> > deposits are detected at the TSPS tandem office.  Therefore the coin
> > deposit tones would need to be detectable over a 3KHz T1 channel.
> >
> > I do believe that the first coin deposit changes a DC condition in the
> > telephone that can be interrogated by the COE.  So the COE can determine
> > whether one or more coins or the "initial rate" is actually in the
> > hopper.  AFAIK, to use a red box successfully, one should deposit one
> > nickel or perhaps the inital rate first and then use the red box for the
> > remaining deposits.  This way, if the COE performs an intial rate or
> > coin presence check before call completion, it will succeed.
> >
> > Steph
> >
> > Bernard Green wrote:
> > > Steph
> > >
> > > I cannot recall from where I heard this but I do recall an attempt to
> beat the red box hacking  by using a tone that was outside the working
> frequency range of the microphone.
> > >
> > > The use of an intelligent ( but not vandal proof  ) phone for pay
> phones
> would remove the need to have fee checking on allocated lines in the
> exchange.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Bernard Green
> > > Dead ringer for a Wanna bee telephone engineer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Steph Kerman
> > >   To: ATCA ; ATCA-Yahoo Group ; TCI ; Central Office ; VoIP ; Strowger
> List
> > >   Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:20 PM
> > >   Subject: [Strowger] Re: [originally from Strowger] A NYC Payphone
> Puzzle
> > >
> > >
> > >   Interesting thoughts, Bernard.
> > >
> > >   The majority of Telco owned payphones in the US are connected to
> "coin
> > >   lines".  Privately owned payphones use ordinary lines with
> intelligence
> > >   inside the payphone and would be vulnerable to the "hack" you
> described.
> > >
> > >   On coin lines, there would be no extra benefits from having metallic
> > >   access to the line since the COE rates the call and supervises for
> coin
> > >   deposits.  The transmitter is enabled from the moment dial tone is
> > >   received, so arbitrary tones can be sent by acoustic coupling
> without
> > >   metallic connection.  Indeed, the "red box" does precisely this,
> > >   emulating coin deposit tones.
> > >   It would probably be much easier to get access to the line by
> opening
> > >   the base of the pedestal, which I think is assembled with "security"
> > >   Allen screws having a center post, requiring a hollow Allen driver.
> > >
> > >   Although 2 dial leads are visible hanging out from the front
> opening,
> > >   I'm pretty sure even a modernized dial implementation has at least 3
> > >   leads.  But probably it has 5 or more leads since traditionally, the
> > >   receiver was muted first by separate contacts to prevent audible
> clicks,
> > >   the transmitter was then disabled and the line was then switched to
> the
> > >   oscillator last.
> > >
> > >   However it is interesting that they pulled these two leads out
> through
> > >   the front holes.  That may indeed be a clue.  I'll have to try out
> that
> > >   phone and see whether it is a dumb phone on a coin line or a smart
> phone
> > >   on an ordinary line.  I am not aware of Verizon using smart phones
> > >   within their own service area.
> > >
> > >   Steph
> > >
> > >   Bernard Green wrote:
> > >   > First thing that comes to mind is that having gained access to the
> wires to the touch tone keypad a more versatile tone generator could be
> connected. This may provide " extra benefits" to the vandal in routing
> calls.
> > >   >
> > >   > Maybe the two wires to the keypad would allow an ordinary phone to
> be connected to the line and thus bypass the coin operated switches
> > >   >
> > >   > On UK coin boxes where the microphone was shorted until coins had
> been inserted "vandals" would slit the sheath of the cable ( coin box to
> phone ) and snip the brown wire to prevent the short being applied.
> > >   >
> > >   > Bernard Green
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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